Face2Face with Ven. Aggamahapanditha
Balangoda Ananda Maitreya Mahanayake Thero
Dr. Tilak S. Fernando’s (London) interview in August 1997
Picture Credit: Google.
The late Ven.
Aggamahapanditha Balangoda Ananda Maitreya Mahanayake thero celebrated
his 99th birthday on 23 August 1997, while he observed Vassa (Rainy
Season according to Buddhist tradition) in London, at the Sri Saddhatissa
International Buddhist Centre, of which the venerable was the patron. On
his 99th birthday Dr. Tilak S. Fernando interviewed the venerable
monk exclusively to The Island newspaper. From Dr Fernando’s
archives that come out to his blog,
after so years and many gems out of his Face2Face interview,s this
interview is being appreciated by many a a reader.
TSF. Most Ven. Sir, You are 99 years
old today, and you have seen much of the world where many of us have not
seen or experienced. Can you tell me how you feel about it?
Ven: That
means my life span is fast coming to an end! Is this a thing to celebrate?
Well! As for me, it is a thing for celebration, because nearer I go towards
death, happier I feel, as I know nearing my death means I am moving towards a
new birth.
My humble wish is to be reborn over & over again among human
beings for the service of the Buddha Dhamma. In this life, I could not fulfill
my wishes to its pristine purity. But I know in my next life, I will be more
influential, better learned, much stronger, and capable of carrying out my
service to propagate Buddhism in the world. It is common knowledge in Sri Lanka
that my aspiration is to attain Buddha hood some day in the distant future.
Perhaps it will be decided when I see Lord Maître".
TSF. I am sure, people in Sri Lanka
would like to know something about your life prior to your priesthood. Would
you like to talk about it?
Ven. Yes, I was born on 23 August 1896 to Heenmenike and Mathies Appuhamy.
Fourteen days after I was born, my mother died and my saddened father left the
village altogether. It was my uncle Dingirihamy Mudalali (father's brother) and
his wife Yasohamine, who brought me up. To me, they were my parents.
TSF. What were you called in your
childhood, and what made you to enter priesthood?
Ven. My (gihi) layman’s name was Punchi Mahattaya. When I was 9 years of
age, an eminent figure from the Mahabodhi Society, Brahmacharya Walisinghe
Harrischandra visited my school, Kumara Vidyalaya, in 1905, and delivered a
speech on Buddhist way of life. Having listened to his orientation, I thought I
should follow the true Buddhist path and be a model like the gentleman himself.
Those were the days when everyone respected and honoured
Buddhist monks. At the age of 15, after a ' battle' with my ' parents' to
obtain their blessings to take up robes, I received their consent in 1911.
Finally I was ordained as a 'Samanera', at Nandaramaya, Balangoda Udumulla
Temple, which was also built by my uncle Dingiri Mudalali.
TSF: In a spiritual context, how would you
explain the moral decadence of the people in Sri Lanka over the
years, with your own personal experience?
Ven Towards
the latter part of the British rule, Sri Lankans lived a happy and a spiritual
life. Their aim was to uphold their culture and religion. When foreign
influence was encroaching upon the Lankan society people like Anagarika
Dharmapala fought against such tide waves. They foresaw the impact and the
damage the foreign influence was going to have on the Country. That was the
main purpose set forth to oust the British and seek Independence. But once we
received our Independence, our National leaders, in my opinion, did not
understand the very purpose of achieving that freedom. Therefore, they carried
on as before, and the result was that the country went from bad to worse.
TSF: We didn't really reap the benefits out
of our Independence, is that what you mean?
Ven: During
the British rule, at least the Europeans listened to our peoples' claims and
their agitation, but our leaders turned a deaf ear to any public outcry. By Sri
Lanka becoming more liberalised, it caused a steep decline in cultural and
religious values. Soon, people started to divide themselves into various political
groups, whereas during the Colonial regime there was complete unity among the
people. That unity was associated with preserving Buddhism and our cultural
values, but today's deterioration on moral cultural, economic and spiritual
values are due to this division of our own people. They are only interested in
competing against each other & promoting their own political parties and
not religion or cultural values.
TSF: In the light of reference to ' Devas' (gods) in Buddhist stanzas such
as in " Ethipiso Bagawatho…...
&. Eththa Watcha Chamhehi.....; Swakhato Bhagawatho..etc..." can
you reconcile such references with the concept of an Omnipresent God, as
referred to in Hinduism ?
Ven: Buddhists
don't believe in any Omnipresent or Omnipotent God. Every man, according to
Buddhist philosophy, has the opportunity to be born in one of six Deva Worlds
as a Deva, if one lives a morally good clean life. In other words, there are
people who have ascended to higher worlds due to their good Karma. There are
some earth bound Devas too, who are very near to us. Humans can transfer merit
to some Devas, but not to every Deva.
Merely by repeating gathas (stanzas) in parrot form such
as" Aaakasa satta bhummatta or Ethcha Watcha Cha Chammehi,” out of habit ,
or offering alms, for the sake of name and fame , there is nothing to transfer
as merit to Devas, and people cannot expect protection from Devas in such
circumstances.
Today when they want to give alms to priests, some go in search
of Nayake theros, famous priests ( " big guns"... an infectious
laugh! ) and forget the poor monks, who lead religious & secluded lives.
Out of such alms giving people cannot expect any help from Devas! Unfortunately,
it is my personal belief that Devas have forgotten our country!
TSF: Today Lord Buddha's message is being
interpreted to the world in various forms, such as Hinayana, Mahayana and
Vagirayana. Do you agree that these different interpretations tend to blur
Buddha's basic message?
Ven: There
may be different schools of thought, different rituals and rites among various
sects, but the underlined factor is that Buddhists are all united in Lord
Buddha's ' Attangika Magga' (8 fold path). Rituals & ceremonies are
unimportant, but what matters is the quality of life one leads, and whether it
is pure and unblemished. Then you will find you are on the way to progress –
That is Lord Buddha's point of view.
TSF How would you analyse the terms ' Soul' &
Athma’? Lord Buddha taught that the word 'soul' had no meaning. How would you account for the cycle of birth
and rebirth taking the concept of soul as interpreted by other religions?
Ven: There
are two ways of explaining this, if we take the Sun as a simple example. A
teacher, who takes a class of young children, may use the conventional language
to tell his students that the ‘Sun is rising and setting’, although there is no
such thing, but the phenomenon takes place due to the rotation of the earth.
When the same teacher takes an advanced class, he has to use his
‘profound’ knowledge to speak a language that is palatable, and use scientific
examples, and perhaps be more philosophical in his approach. Likewise, Buddha's
teachings varied according to the level of intelligence of the seekers of the truth.
He used the words such as ' Soul' and ' Athma' as appropriate. But to those
aspirants who had opened up their intelligence, Lord Buddha taught the
Vipassana Meditation - dealing with topics such as " what is life? What is
man (matter + mind) etc. Mind is a series of
impermanent occurrences to be taken as unchanging essence or 'soul'; Physical
body is also a stream of material state subject to momentary change & there
is nothing to be taken as ego, entity or soul" . This practice of
understanding of one's own nature, Buddha said, was not practicable to use in
the ' ordinary world'.
TSF: The subject of paranormal phenomena is
being explored in depth today in the western world. In the University of
Edinburgh, a Chair has been set up for the sake of Parapsychology, which
involves the study of Ghosts! What are your views on Ghosts or ‘Bhuthayas,’
as we call them?
Ven: Well!
When a man dies, sometimes he is born in a different world with a subtle body
due to his attachment to his family. In that subtle (astral) body form the dead
person can live for some time till he ascends to a higher world with the help
of meritorious deeds done by his relatives. In that body, such a ‘person’ can
travel faster than light because it moves with the mind.
TSF: How is that only some people can see
such subtle bodies and not others?
Ven:
Some dead persons in that state can make their astral bodies become solid so
that others may see it. Others are not able to do it, and, therefore, they cannot show themselves.
TSF: There is a belief in Sri Lanka that people
are always born under various 'Ganas' such as ‘Rakksa’, ‘Deva’, and ‘Manussa
Gana’. Is it a fact?
Ven. It is
only an astrological interpretation. Now, I belong to Rakksa Gana, but I am not
cruel at all! (burst out with laughter )
TSF: Today a lot of Buddhists are becoming
devotees of Sai Baba! In view of the confused state of mind in certain
Buddhist quarters, could you throw some light on the subject?
Ven: I
also have visited Sai Baba some 20 years or so ago, when I was nearly going
blind with Cataract. Everyone advised me against an operation; I was very
confused. Suddenly a Dayaka in our temple, who could not speak English paid my
travelling expenses and invited me to accompany him to go to India , as an
interpreter, to see Sai Baba.
TSF: Did you see him, and what was your
experience on that trip?
Ven: When
I first set eyes on Sai Baba in his Ashram at Whitefield, Bangalore, he
came to me straight ignoring a large audience and blessed me
with his usual gesture of waving his right hand and walked away from me. After
taking a few yards, suddenly he turned back and walked towards me again. Next,
he put both his hands on my shoulders, smiled and said " Get your eyes operated it will be
successful". I told Sai Baba, that was exactly I was contemplating in
my mind at that very moment, and was wondering how to ask him about it.
He simply smiled again and repeated, "Don't you worry, operation will be successful" , and went
away.
TSF: What was your instant reaction to
that?
Ven. I
was stunned because even without having to ask the question Sai Baba knew
exactly my thoughts. According to me, He is a very powerful person with some
wonderful psychic powers. Various people regard him as the incarnation of Lord
Vishnu, a world teacher, coming Messiah, advanced yogi etc.. But to me, he is a
spiritually elevated human being with tremendous powers.
TSF. So, do you think as a Buddhist there is no
harm in following Sai Baba ?
Ven: Well!
I suppose let me put it this way, if you were to visit a
Harley Street specialist for a consultation or to get some treatment, is it
harmful to your religion ? (smiling ).. Likewise, people go to see Sai Baba to
clear their doubts, seek help for various forms of mental, psychical and psychological
etc. There is no harm at all in doing so.
I will relate another story as a reply to your question. In
Anguttra Nikaya, Lord Buddha referred to six great teachers who were true
believers in a creator God, called Brahmma. These teachers taught people how to
follow a morally good path in life to develop their jhanas (spiritual
knowledge). Those who practised such disciplines were later born in Brahma
world. So, the Buddha said, the pupils were not even Buddhists, but followers
of Brahmma God, yet they listened to their teachers with an open mind,
respected their masters' teaching and followed their good advice and led pure
and moral lives, which helped them to earn much merit. They were consequently
reborn in Deva & Brahmma worlds.
TSF What happened to your eye-sight after you met
Sai Baba?
Ven Two
weeks after I returned back to Sri Lanka, I went completely blind in both my
eyes. Immediately I entered the general hospital and got my right eye operated
on. It was successful. Later the left eye was done and now, I can read
even big letters without having to wear spectacles.
TSF: Do you think that Sai Baba helped you &
encouraged you to undergo your eye operations?
Ven: Yes
! Yes !! His blessings on me also have helped me a great deal especially to
make up mind to operate or not.
TSF: How would you categorise Buddhists in
Sri Lanka today - Average, Deep or just Ritualistic?
Ven: People
in every village and town are now becoming more and more interested in the
practice of meditation. Specially it is encouraging to see mostly the youth,
both male and female, becoming interested in Vipassana meditation. In my view,
the uneducated are getting caught up in ritualistic practices, which were not
found some 50 years ago. But on the whole, Buddhism is now improving among the
educated classes and it is a very good sign.
TSF. In Sri Lanka you are regarded as one of the
most respected and holy monks, who has reached spiritual enlightenment to a
very high degree. Yet in some quarters of the society, there have been subtle
criticism about your close association with the late President R. Premadasa,
who was a politician. What are your comments?
Ven. I am
not a politician & I do not belong to any political party either. People
have totally misunderstood me. I knew Mr. Premadasa as a young boy, who came to
our temple to read my Dhamma School books. I was very much familiar with him
long before he entered politics.
Later when I was in the USA, he had named a new village in my hometown
Balangoda, under his Gam Udawa project. He called it the Ananda Maitreya Gama,
and I did not even know about it, as I
was in the USA at the time. When I returned to Sri Lanka I went to thank him.
He asked me whether it was not a good idea to live close to Colombo, at my age,
as it was tiresome for me to travel to & from Balangoda. Within a week he
showed me a video film of a plot of land and said to me, " Hamuduruwane do you like this place?”
It was a calm place near a river and ideal for my meditation, I told him so.
When I was in England two years later, he phoned me and asked me
return to Sri Lanka to take over the new temple, which he had already built
without my knowledge. He had already named it Battaramulla Chitta Viveka Aaramaya
. When I saw him in Colombo again he told me, " Hamuduruwane, this is my
religious obligation, as I have a great regard for you, and this has nothing to
do with politics. I do not want you to get involved in politics or become a UNP
supporter.
It is true that I went to see some of his Gam Udawa programmes,
and that was purely out of my own accord to see what they were like. Even Mrs. Bandaranaike
has told me the same thing when she was the Prime Minister – “ not to get involved in politics”.
Late Dr N.M.Perera made a request in his last Will for me to perform his
funeral rites. The moment I heard about it, I went & did everything to fulfill
his last ambitions.
TSF. Looking back at your past and experience in
life for nearly ten decades, would you comment on the lax-discipline of some of
the modern monks? Do you agree that Vinaya
Council in Sri Lanka has not pulled its weight to cleanse the Sangha of
such deviants? Some years ago, the Vinaya Council exercised stringent powers of
discipline. Why has it failed to deliver?
Ven. Some
years ago Bhikkus were much engrossed in conforming to Vinaya. Even now in most
temples there are many disciplined monks. If there was a lax in discipline, I
can only think of the new University education, followed by monks taking up
teaching careers. Even among them I know quite a few who are trying to maintain
highly disciplined Orders.
Here and there, of course, you will always find black sheep, you
can't avoid it. Even during Lord Buddha's time, there were 250 Bhikkus who were
living in a monastery misbehaving. They were dancing with women and sleeping
with women. Women were singing and playing the Harp & were entertaining the
monks etc. Ultimately Lord Buddha had to send Ven. Sariputta to chase the
undisciplined monks away (laughter....). My advice is, if you come across an
undisciplined monk try and explain to him the purpose of his becoming a Bhikku,
in a loving and caring manner, otherwise if you condemn him, he will become incorrigible.
TSF. What is your plans for the future?
Ven: I would like to give my services to Dhamma whenever I get an
opportunity. But the problem is that I never get a free moment, whether I am in
Sri Lanka, England or in the USA, people keep on visiting me and they seek
advice. I suppose it is also a form of service!
My main aim is to develop my mind to a much higher level.
I will do it. My conscience says so, that I am capable of doing it. I do
not want to be born in heavenly worlds when I am dead.
I would like to be born in Sri Lanka as a human being to develop
Buddhism further and propagate Lord Buddha's philosophy throughout the world in
its pristine purity. I have this strong feeling & urge within me. Apart from that, as many people are aware, my
aspiration is to attain Buddha-hood in the distant future someday. Perhaps it
will be decided when I see Lord Maitreya.
tilakfernando@gmail.com